Dynomotion

Group: DynoMotion Message: 12636 From: bsjoelund Date: 12/29/2015
Subject: AC drive control issues

Hello,


I have received AC Servo drives that seems to be working only with 0-10VDC (not +-10VDC).

On drive is one digital input for switching direction.

So my question is can Kflop/Kanalog be set to work with above conditions?


Cheers

Bengt
Group: DynoMotion Message: 12637 From: Moray Cuthill Date: 12/29/2015
Subject: Re: AC drive control issues
It is possible, however I'm not sure just how well it would work for accurate positioning. I use it to create closed loop control of the spindle on my lathe, where it will quite happily keep a constant speed above ~100rpm (below that, the response time of the relays/VFD make the spindle bounce forward/reverse)

It's fairly simple to implement. Setup the channel as having no output, which should give you a line like this in the channel config lines -

ch2->OutputMode=NO_OUTPUT_MODE;

Then within your main init.c loop, you need something like this -

  // **** Start Spindle Control ****
  // As the standard channel output options can't handle activating outputs depending on
  // direction required, this takes the output from channel 2(Spindle), and activates them
  // accordingly
  if(ch2->Enable)
  {
   if(ch2->Output > 0)
   {
    SetBit(153);
    DAC(2,(int)ch2->Output*-1);
    
   } else {
    ClearBit(153);
   }
   if(ch2->Output < 0)
   {
    SetBit(154);
    DAC(2,(int)ch2->Output);
   } else {
    ClearBit(154);
   }
  } else {
   ClearBit(153);
   ClearBit(154);
  }
  // **** End Spindle Control ****

I'm using a Kanalog, which means bits 153/154 represent relay driver outputs, connected to relays. I'm sure I could wire the VFD direct, however the relay system was original and I seen no need to change it.

Moray

On Tue, Dec 29, 2015 at 10:10 AM, cnc@... [DynoMotion] <DynoMotion@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
 

Hello,


I have received AC Servo drives that seems to be working only with 0-10VDC (not +-10VDC).

On drive is one digital input for switching direction.

So my question is can Kflop/Kanalog be set to work with above conditions?


Cheers

Bengt
Group: DynoMotion Message: 12638 From: TK Date: 12/29/2015
Subject: Re: AC drive control issues
Attachments :
    Hi Bengt,

    To support that you would need a small C Program to take the Servo Output (ch0->Output), write the absolute value to a DAC, and set the direction bit based on the sign of the Servo Output.  You would then set the Axis Configuration Output Mode to "No Output".

    I'm not sure how well it would work.   If the speed/torque isn't continuous through zero or there is a delay switching direction then that is likely to cause poor servo performance or instability.

    I've attached a C Program that does Sign and Magnitude to a PWM channel.  It shouldn't be difficult to change to write to a DAC instead.

    HTH
    Regards
    TK


    On 12/29/2015 2:10 AM, cnc@... [DynoMotion] wrote:
     

    Hello,


    I have received AC Servo drives that seems to be working only with 0-10VDC (not +-10VDC).

    On drive is one digital input for switching direction.

    So my question is can Kflop/Kanalog be set to work with above conditions?


    Cheers

    Bengt
    Group: DynoMotion Message: 12643 From: bsjoelund Date: 12/30/2015
    Subject: Re: AC drive control issues
    Attachments :
    Hi Tom,

    Thanks for your reply.Is the enclosed schematics another way to go?

    Cheers
    Bengt


    		   @@attachment@@
    Group: DynoMotion Message: 12644 From: Tom Kerekes Date: 12/30/2015
    Subject: Re: AC drive control issues [1 Attachment]
    Hi Bengt,

    That's a clever circuit. I think that would work. But I don't understand why you would add the circuit if you could do the same thing in software with a few lines of code.  Whatever delays or issues with the drive when switching directions would be the same.  Software would allow flexibility to do more things for example adding deadband or limiting how frequently the direction could change. 

    Regards
    TK

    On Dec 30, 2015, at 2:58 AM, cnc@... [DynoMotion] <DynoMotion@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

     

    Hi Tom,


    Thanks for your reply.Is the enclosed schematics another way to go?

    Cheers
    Bengt
    Group: DynoMotion Message: 12645 From: bennyattwell Date: 12/30/2015
    Subject: Re: AC drive control issues
    What servo brand is this ?
    Only asking as I had same problem originally with Mitsubishi drives
    I eventually found parameter to change to make them accept +\- 10v
    Group: DynoMotion Message: 12646 From: bsjoelund Date: 12/30/2015
    Subject: Re: AC drive control issues [1 Attachment]
    Hi Tom,

    Exactly, this is a solution that came up on local forum before you did reply to my question on how to deal with the problem.

    Cheers
    Bengt
    Group: DynoMotion Message: 12647 From: bsjoelund Date: 12/30/2015
    Subject: Re: AC drive control issues
    Hi Benny,

    This is Chinese LICHUAN B2 series drivers. 
    Apparently the only way is to control these as described.

    Having e-mail going back and forth with Chinese seller to see why drivers are delivered in this way.
    My specs was ±10VDC and this was accepted but obviously Lichuan made an error on this order of
    9 servo packages ranging from 750W to 3.8kW.
    Lichuan original documentation clearly shows that ±10VDC is possible but not on my drives :(

    The fight goes on until I have to open a dispute on Paypal.

    Cheers
    Bengt
    Group: DynoMotion Message: 12648 From: az@aimele.com Date: 12/30/2015
    Subject: Re: AC drive control issues
    Bengt:

    I suspect that there are parameter settings that allow you set these drives up as variable speed drives or servo drives.  It sounds like they are set up for variable speed operation now.  I've never seen a positioning servo drive  system operating with 1/2 analog and 1/2 digital direction command.

    Have a  look into the parameter settings to minimize the complication in setting up. your system.

    AZ



    Group: DynoMotion Message: 12649 From: az@aimele.com Date: 12/30/2015
    Subject: Re: AC drive control issues
    Bengt:

    I suspect that returning these drives would be the only practical solution because there is probably some noticeable delay between switching directions and actually moving which is typically unacceptable in a servo positioning application.  If you are considering modifying your control to accommodate them, I would test for this delay before doing much more.

    Sorry for your problem.  I know how frustrating it can be.

    AZ



    Group: DynoMotion Message: 12650 From: bsjoelund Date: 12/30/2015
    Subject: Re: AC drive control issues
    Sorry but there is no way to do this as it seems to disabled or just 0-10V enabled on 'bi-directional' input.

    Awaiting reply from China if there is other Eproms or external re-programming options for the drives.
    I know this sounds ridiculous but this is the way the drives are delivered, but my specs are ±10VDC and to that the seller agreed/accepted so some kind of bad communication between seller and factory is obvious.

    Cheers
    Bengt 
    Group: DynoMotion Message: 12730 From: bsjoelund Date: 1/24/2016
    Subject: Re: AC drive control issues
    Hi Tom,

    Can you be so kind and re-post the attachment as it seems to have been forgotten.

    No solution to this problem from China so I am hoping to get my money back or a real steel deal on these bastards ;)

    Cheers
    Bengt
    Group: DynoMotion Message: 12731 From: bsjoelund Date: 1/24/2016
    Subject: Re: AC drive control issues
    Hi Tom,

    Another question, as these drivers have also step/dir control how can this be implemented with encoders?

    Cheers
    Bengt
    Group: DynoMotion Message: 12732 From: Tom Kerekes Date: 1/24/2016
    Subject: Re: AC drive control issues
    Hi Bengt

    Here is the attachment.

    Good luck
    TK

    On 1/24/2016 4:05 AM, cnc@... [DynoMotion] wrote:
     

    Hi Tom,


    Another question, as these drivers have also step/dir control how can this be implemented with encoders?

    Cheers
    Bengt

    		   @@attachment@@
    Group: DynoMotion Message: 12774 From: bsjoelund Date: 2/14/2016
    Subject: Re: AC drive control issues
    Attachments :
      Hi Tom,

      Can you have a look at enclosed files and see if I am on the right path. I want to test one servo-driver only here in my office where I have Kflop+Kanalog extra boards just to do testing.

      My question is can I use DIR_BIT0 30 with a resistor in series as the driver is 24V?
      or do as I wrote in the C-file as an alternative? Fast enough?

       One page 10 in attached PDF DI4 Digital input

      PWM
      AI1 to pin5 on Kflop JP6 and ANGD to pin 8
      Will this generate needed voltage 0-10V?

      Cheers
      Bengt
      Group: DynoMotion Message: 12775 From: Tom Kerekes Date: 2/14/2016
      Subject: Re: AC drive control issues
      Hi Bengt,

      No you can not connect +24V inputs to KFLOP ouputs.  In open collector mode they are still diode clamped to the 3.3V supply which won't allow then to float above ~ 3.8V.

      The FET Relay driver will drive 24V signals.  It updates every 90us.

      I think you are also confusing PWM sign+magnitude with analog sign+magnitude.

      It looks like on page 14 they show a +/-10V analog signal being applied to AI3.  Are you certain the drive doesn't accept +/-10V?  That would be a very unusual for a position/speed/torque capable drive not to be capable of accepting.  I would try applying a small voltage at that point to test.  Use a 1.5V battery and a 1Kohm in series.  The 1K ohm resistor should avoid any damage if we are wrong.  Reversing the battery should reverse the motor direction.

      You might also consider using the Step/Dir inputs and have the drive close the loop.

      HTH
      Regards
      TK



      On 2/14/2016 6:11 AM, cnc@... [DynoMotion] wrote:
       

      Hi Tom,


      Can you have a look at enclosed files and see if I am on the right path. I want to test one servo-driver only here in my office where I have Kflop+Kanalog extra boards just to do testing.

      My question is can I use DIR_BIT0 30 with a resistor in series as the driver is 24V?
      or do as I wrote in the C-file as an alternative? Fast enough?

       One page 10 in attached PDF DI4 Digital input

      PWM
      AI1 to pin5 on Kflop JP6 and ANGD to pin 8
      Will this generate needed voltage 0-10V?

      Cheers
      Bengt
      Group: DynoMotion Message: 12776 From: bsjoelund Date: 2/14/2016
      Subject: Re: AC drive control issues
      Hi Tom,

      As regards AI3 the manual says one thing but in reality it is only 0-10V, have been palying with 1.5V battery and it is no go. 

      I think that te sales company have made their own translation to the manufakturer as regards my specs that are in fact industry standard and now they can not/will not send new replacement drives with the excuse that the manufacturer cannot get this plus/minus 10V bipolar AI3 input to work as described in manual on several places. They are just trying to creep out from our agreement, all I want is to have drivers to specs or money back.

      So, is the C-file I edited OK using FET on Kanalog? How do I generate 0-10V?

      Step/Dir is an option but I would prefer analog control with closed loop in Kflop.

      Cheers
      Bengt
      Group: DynoMotion Message: 12779 From: Tom Kerekes Date: 2/14/2016
      Subject: Re: AC drive control issues
      Hi Bengt,

      Yes the FET should work.  I've modified your program to write to DAC0 instead of the PWM to create the 0-10V output.  See attached.

      HTH
      Regards
      TK

      On 2/14/2016 11:03 AM, cnc@... [DynoMotion] wrote:
       

      Hi Tom,


      As regards AI3 the manual says one thing but in reality it is only 0-10V, have been palying with 1.5V battery and it is no go. 

      I think that te sales company have made their own translation to the manufakturer as regards my specs that are in fact industry standard and now they can not/will not send new replacement drives with the excuse that the manufacturer cannot get this plus/minus 10V bipolar AI3 input to work as described in manual on several places. They are just trying to creep out from our agreement, all I want is to have drivers to specs or money back.

      So, is the C-file I edited OK using FET on Kanalog? How do I generate 0-10V?

      Step/Dir is an option but I would prefer analog control with closed loop in Kflop.

      Cheers
      Bengt

      		   @@attachment@@
      Group: DynoMotion Message: 12965 From: bsjoelund Date: 3/23/2016
      Subject: Re: AC drive control issues
      Hi Tom,

      Can you help me with step by step instructions on how to do a test, I have all connected ready for test.
      I am a bit rusty as I have been away from Kflop for a very long time.

      SWO is connected to do the direction change, is there anything else to be rewritten in this code?

      In C-program = save/compile/download/run
      Config/Flash = Input Encoder Output No output? (Encoder works i Axis)

      Then what?

      Cheers
      Bengt

      		   @@attachment@@
      Group: DynoMotion Message: 12966 From: bsjoelund Date: 3/23/2016
      Subject: Re: AC drive control issues
      Attachments :
      I have som very jerky movement ;)

      So where to go from here?

      Cheers
      Bengt

      		   @@attachment@@
      Group: DynoMotion Message: 12971 From: TKSOFT Date: 3/24/2016
      Subject: Re: AC drive control issues [1 Attachment] 
      Hi Bengt,

      I believe your PID gains are way too high making your system unstable.

      Start with very low values.  I = 0.00001  P=0.1  D=0

      until you can get the system stable.

      As we discussed earlier if the Drive has a time delay switching directions it will be very difficult to make a stable system with good performance.

      Something strange occurs toward the beginning where the motor temporarily move the wrong direction.  I worry this indicates a delay in the direction change.

      Regards
      TK


      On 2016-03-23 13:02, cnc@... [DynoMotion] wrote:

       > [Attachment(s) from cnc@... [DynoMotion] included below] 
> 
> I have som very jerky movement ;)
> 
> So where to go from here?
> 
> Cheers
> Bengt
>
      Group: DynoMotion Message: 12973 From: bsjoelund Date: 3/24/2016
      Subject: Re: AC drive control issues [1 Attachment]
      Attachments :
      Hi Tom,

      Looks like output/position are 180 degrees off.

      /Bengt
      		   @@attachment@@
      Group: DynoMotion Message: 12974 From: bsjoelund Date: 3/24/2016
      Subject: Re: AC drive control issues [1 Attachment]
      Tom,

      what about CL step instead of us banging our heads as these drivers also have S/D input?

      Is there any good outputs on Kanalog for a test with S/D as it is easier with connecting wires.


      Cheers
      Bengt
      Group: DynoMotion Message: 12975 From: bsjoelund Date: 3/24/2016
      Subject: Re: AC drive control issues [1 Attachment]
      Attachments :
      Forgot the input schematics for the driver
      		   @@attachment@@
      Group: DynoMotion Message: 12976 From: Tom Kerekes Date: 3/24/2016
      Subject: Re: AC drive control issues [1 Attachment]
      Doesn't look good. Note at the beginning the output is to 600 and after 80 milliseconds still no motion at all. 

      Regards. 

      TK

      On Mar 24, 2016, at 11:17 AM, cnc@... [DynoMotion] <DynoMotion@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

       

      Hi Tom,


      Looks like output/position are 180 degrees off.

      /Bengt
      Group: DynoMotion Message: 12977 From: Tom Kerekes Date: 3/24/2016
      Subject: Re: AC drive control issues [1 Attachment]
      Yes I think you should try Step/dir. There are not any Step/Dir outputs on Kanalog. Consider using KFLOP JP5 open collector mode. 

      Regards
      TK

      On Mar 24, 2016, at 12:32 PM, cnc@... [DynoMotion] <DynoMotion@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

       

      Forgot the input schematics for the driver
      Group: DynoMotion Message: 12978 From: bsjoelund Date: 3/24/2016
      Subject: Re: AC drive control issues [1 Attachment]
      Any suitable test file with all settings for JP5?

      /Bengt
      Group: DynoMotion Message: 12979 From: bsjoelund Date: 3/25/2016
      Subject: Re: AC drive control issues [1 Attachment]
      Attachments :
      How do I setup IO36/37 to run a test?

      Config says Output Channels and Help file list Signals!

      I assume 4 (Signals in help file) is correct as IO numbers can not be found in drop down list.


      Happy Easter everybody

      Bengt
      		   @@attachment@@
      Group: DynoMotion Message: 12980 From: bsjoelund Date: 3/25/2016
      Subject: Re: AC drive control issues [1 Attachment]
      Attachments :
      Hi Tom,

      Found an error in encoder wireing A cannel - was not properly connected.

      Now I get no movement what so ever, driver works with 1.5V battery so something is fishy.
      Any ideas?

      Cheers
      Bengt

      		   @@attachment@@
      Group: DynoMotion Message: 12981 From: TKSOFT Date: 3/25/2016
      Subject: Re: AC drive control issues [1 Attachment]
      Hi Bengt,

      See:
      http://www.dynomotion.com/wiki/index.php?title=Channels_Channels_Channels

      and

      http://www.dynomotion.com/Help/StepAndDirection/StepAndDir.htm

      Regards
      TK

      On 2016-03-25 02:34, cnc@... [DynoMotion] wrote:
      > [Attachment(s) from cnc@... [DynoMotion] included below]
      >
      > How do I setup IO36/37 to run a test?
      >
      > Config says Output Channels and Help file list Signals!
      >
      > I assume 4 (Signals in help file) is correct as IO numbers can not be
      > found in drop down list.
      >
      > Happy Easter everybody
      >
      > Bengt
      >
      >
      > Links:
      > ------
      > [1]
      > https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/DynoMotion/attachments/1882292743;_ylc=X3oDMTJyY2pvZW9yBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzE1ODU4MDAxBGdycHNwSWQDMTcwNjU1NDIwNQRzZWMDYXR0YWNobWVudARzbGsDdmlld09uV2ViBHN0aW1lAzE0NTg4OTg0NjY-
      > [2]
      > https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/DynoMotion/attachments/1882292743;_ylc=X3oDMTJuMGd1dWM3BF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzE1ODU4MDAxBGdycHNwSWQDMTcwNjU1NDIwNQRzZWMDYXR0YWNobWVudARzbGsDcGhvdG8Ec3RpbWUDMTQ1ODg5ODQ2Ng--?itemid=1307696158
      > [3]
      > https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/DynoMotion/conversations/messages/12979;_ylc=X3oDMTJyanI2a3VqBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzE1ODU4MDAxBGdycHNwSWQDMTcwNjU1NDIwNQRtc2dJZAMxMjk3OQRzZWMDZnRyBHNsawNycGx5BHN0aW1lAzE0NTg4OTg0NjY-?act=reply&messageNum=12979
      > [4]
      > https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/DynoMotion/conversations/newtopic;_ylc=X3oDMTJmY2JtaWoyBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzE1ODU4MDAxBGdycHNwSWQDMTcwNjU1NDIwNQRzZWMDZnRyBHNsawNudHBjBHN0aW1lAzE0NTg4OTg0NjY-
      > [5]
      > https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/DynoMotion/conversations/topics/12636;_ylc=X3oDMTM3N2Q3cmU0BF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzE1ODU4MDAxBGdycHNwSWQDMTcwNjU1NDIwNQRtc2dJZAMxMjk3OQRzZWMDZnRyBHNsawN2dHBjBHN0aW1lAzE0NTg4OTg0NjYEdHBjSWQDMTI2MzY-
      > [6]
      > https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/DynoMotion/photos/photomatic/1436791565;_ylc=X3oDMTE4M3R1OW82BF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGNmOQNQSE9UT01BVElDBHNlYwNtZWdhcGhvbmU-
      > [7] https://yho.com/13fl5l
      > [8]
      > https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/DynoMotion/info;_ylc=X3oDMTJmZDZ2bzJmBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzE1ODU4MDAxBGdycHNwSWQDMTcwNjU1NDIwNQRzZWMDdnRsBHNsawN2Z2hwBHN0aW1lAzE0NTg4OTg0NjY-
      > [9]
      > https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/DynoMotion/members/all;_ylc=X3oDMTJnZWk2amJjBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzE1ODU4MDAxBGdycHNwSWQDMTcwNjU1NDIwNQRzZWMDdnRsBHNsawN2bWJycwRzdGltZQMxNDU4ODk4NDY2
      > [10]
      > https://groups.yahoo.com/neo;_ylc=X3oDMTJlODk2azVuBF9TAzk3NDc2NTkwBGdycElkAzE1ODU4MDAxBGdycHNwSWQDMTcwNjU1NDIwNQRzZWMDZnRyBHNsawNnZnAEc3RpbWUDMTQ1ODg5ODQ2Ng--
      > [11] https://info.yahoo.com/privacy/us/yahoo/groups/details.html
      > [12] https://info.yahoo.com/legal/us/yahoo/utos/terms/
      Group: DynoMotion Message: 12982 From: bsjoelund Date: 3/25/2016
      Subject: Re: AC drive control issues [1 Attachment]

      Hopefully this will get some ideas if the switching is OK or not.

      Now I have the oscillation as it is written. So where do I go from here?


      Cheers
      Bengt
      		   @@attachment@@
      Group: DynoMotion Message: 12983 From: TKSOFT Date: 3/25/2016
      Subject: Re: AC drive control issues [1 Attachment]
      Hi Bengt,

      See:
      http://www.dynomotion.com/wiki/index.php?title=Kanalog_Hardware_Info#Initial_Setup.2FTesting_for_Analog_Amplifiers

      Could your amplifiers be 4-20ma Analog instead of +/-10V Analog? Did
      you check your manual?

      If a 1.5V Battery through a 1K ohm resistor works then 1.5V from a
      Kanalog DAC should do the same thing. Unless the input takes high
      current for some reason that would be very unlikely.

      Regards
      TK


      On 2016-03-25 06:08, cnc@... [DynoMotion] wrote:
      > [Attachment(s) from cnc@... [DynoMotion] included below]
      >
      > Hi Tom,
      >
      > Found an error in encoder wireing A cannel - was not properly
      > connected.
      >
      > Now I get no movement what so ever, driver works with 1.5V battery so
      > something is fishy.
      > Any ideas?
      >
      > Cheers
      > Bengt
      >
      >
      >
      > Links:
      > ------
      > [1]
      > https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/DynoMotion/attachments/678627572;_ylc=X3oDMTJybWlkdm5nBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzE1ODU4MDAxBGdycHNwSWQDMTcwNjU1NDIwNQRzZWMDYXR0YWNobWVudARzbGsDdmlld09uV2ViBHN0aW1lAzE0NTg5MTEzMDU-
      > [2]
      > https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/DynoMotion/attachments/678627572;_ylc=X3oDMTJuajI1N2JuBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzE1ODU4MDAxBGdycHNwSWQDMTcwNjU1NDIwNQRzZWMDYXR0YWNobWVudARzbGsDcGhvdG8Ec3RpbWUDMTQ1ODkxMTMwNQ--?itemid=798792125
      > [3]
      > https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/DynoMotion/conversations/messages/12980;_ylc=X3oDMTJyNXJqc29jBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzE1ODU4MDAxBGdycHNwSWQDMTcwNjU1NDIwNQRtc2dJZAMxMjk4MARzZWMDZnRyBHNsawNycGx5BHN0aW1lAzE0NTg5MTEzMDU-?act=reply&messageNum=12980
      > [4]
      > https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/DynoMotion/conversations/newtopic;_ylc=X3oDMTJmNnJvMmtzBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzE1ODU4MDAxBGdycHNwSWQDMTcwNjU1NDIwNQRzZWMDZnRyBHNsawNudHBjBHN0aW1lAzE0NTg5MTEzMDU-
      > [5]
      > https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/DynoMotion/conversations/topics/12636;_ylc=X3oDMTM3bmo4YzA4BF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzE1ODU4MDAxBGdycHNwSWQDMTcwNjU1NDIwNQRtc2dJZAMxMjk4MARzZWMDZnRyBHNsawN2dHBjBHN0aW1lAzE0NTg5MTEzMDUEdHBjSWQDMTI2MzY-
      > [6]
      > https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/DynoMotion/photos/photomatic/1436791565;_ylc=X3oDMTE4M3R1OW82BF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGNmOQNQSE9UT01BVElDBHNlYwNtZWdhcGhvbmU-
      > [7] https://yho.com/13fl5l
      > [8]
      > https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/DynoMotion/info;_ylc=X3oDMTJmcjd2a2ZmBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzE1ODU4MDAxBGdycHNwSWQDMTcwNjU1NDIwNQRzZWMDdnRsBHNsawN2Z2hwBHN0aW1lAzE0NTg5MTEzMDU-
      > [9]
      > https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/DynoMotion/members/all;_ylc=X3oDMTJnOHQxYTlwBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzE1ODU4MDAxBGdycHNwSWQDMTcwNjU1NDIwNQRzZWMDdnRsBHNsawN2bWJycwRzdGltZQMxNDU4OTExMzA1
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      Group: DynoMotion Message: 12984 From: bsjoelund Date: 3/25/2016
      Subject: Re: AC drive control issues [1 Attachment]
      0-10V + switch ( No ±10V)

      DAC1=100 or higher value works OK via console

      Bengt
      Group: DynoMotion Message: 12989 From: TKSOFT Date: 3/26/2016
      Subject: Re: AC drive control issues [2 Attachments] 
      This is totally unstable.  I don't think it tells us anything.  I would try reducing the gains until the system was stable.

      Although it doesn't matter with such an unstable system anyway, but your motion profile setting are too high also (Velocity 6e6.  KFLOP can only count at 1MHz).

      Regards
      TK


      On 2016-03-25 09:16, cnc@... [DynoMotion] wrote:

       > [Attachment(s) from cnc@... [DynoMotion] included below] 
> 
> Hopefully this will get some ideas if the switching is OK or not.
> 
> Now I have the oscillation as it is written. So where do I go from
> here?
> 
> Cheers
> Bengt 
>  
>
      Group: DynoMotion Message: 12992 From: bsjoelund Date: 3/26/2016
      Subject: Re: AC drive control issues [1 Attachment]
      Hi Tom,

      So the drivers are unstable with analog control.

      How do I setup for Step/Dir, cannot find any examples with JP5 I/O settings.

      Cheers
      Bengt
      Group: DynoMotion Message: 12996 From: Tom Kerekes Date: 3/27/2016
      Subject: Re: AC drive control issues
      Hi Bengt,

      Please put more effort into your questions as it isn't clear what you are missing.

      JP5 pins 1 and 2 are connected to Step/Dir Generator #4.  To use Step/Dir Generator #4 in open collector mode specify OutputChan0=4.

      Regards
      TK


      On 3/26/2016 2:30 PM, cnc@... [DynoMotion] wrote:
       

      Hi Tom,


      So the drivers are unstable with analog control.

      How do I setup for Step/Dir, cannot find any examples with JP5 I/O settings.

      Cheers
      Bengt
      Group: DynoMotion Message: 12998 From: bsjoelund Date: 3/27/2016
      Subject: Re: AC drive control issues
      Sorry for short messages.

      Above does not work for me. Input schematics in earlier message 12975.

      +5V to plus input and  from minus to JP5 pin 1, so is this correct or not?

      Got no 'action' on IO36 .


      Cheers
      Bengt
      Group: DynoMotion Message: 12999 From: Tom Kerekes Date: 3/27/2016
      Subject: Re: AC drive control issues
      Hi Bengt,

      That should be correct if the +5V supply has a common GND with KFLOP.  I'm guessing you used KFLOP +5V but if it is an isolated supply it wouldn't work.

      You didn't explain what you were doing to "get action" or how were you determining that there was "no action".

      I was hoping you would explain something like:

      #1 Powered up and enabled my drives and have holding torque on motors
      #2 Loaded SimpleStepDirAxis0.mot configuration using the Configuration Screen into KFLOP Axis 0
      #3 Set Output Channel 0 to 4
      #4 pushed "Move" on the Step Response Screen.
      #5 saw no motor motion
      #6 looked at JP5 pin1 with scope and saw pulses from X Volts to Y Volts or constant level of Z volts relative to KFLOP GND

      Regards
      TK






      On 3/27/2016 2:37 PM, cnc@... [DynoMotion] wrote:
       

      Sorry for short messages.

      Above does not work for me. Input schematics in earlier message 12975.


      +5V to plus input and  from minus to JP5 pin 1, so is this correct or not?

      Got no 'action' on IO36 .


      Cheers
      Bengt
      Group: DynoMotion Message: 13000 From: bsjoelund Date: 3/27/2016
      Subject: Re: AC drive control issues
      Details tomorrow, past midnight here.

      Cheers
      Bengt
      Group: DynoMotion Message: 13001 From: Tom Kerekes Date: 3/27/2016
      Subject: Re: AC drive control issues
      So just working part time?
      TK

      On 3/27/2016 3:15 PM, cnc@... [DynoMotion] wrote:
       

      Details tomorrow, past midnight here.


      Cheers
      Bengt
      Group: DynoMotion Message: 13003 From: bsjoelund Date: 3/28/2016
      Subject: Re: AC drive control issues
      Hi Tom,

      All done as listed and a very low constant level voltage on JP1 both with DMM and Scope.

      #1 Holding torque, I can with some effort turn the shaft by hand = not rock steady.
      Have to go thru all parameters and see if I have forgotten some settings.



      Cheers

      Bengt
      Group: DynoMotion Message: 13005 From: bsjoelund Date: 3/29/2016
      Subject: Re: AC drive control issues
      Did a reset to factory defaults and now shaft is stiff.

      Cheers
      Bengt
      Group: DynoMotion Message: 13006 From: Tom Kerekes Date: 3/29/2016
      Subject: Re: AC drive control issues
      What did you reset?

      TK

      On Mar 29, 2016, at 12:44 AM, cnc@... [DynoMotion] <DynoMotion@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

       

      Did a reset to factory defaults and now shaft is stiff.


      Cheers
      Bengt
      Group: DynoMotion Message: 13007 From: bsjoelund Date: 3/29/2016
      Subject: Re: AC drive control issues
      I did reset the driver.

      Still no go with step/dir

      Cheers
      Bengt
      Group: DynoMotion Message: 13010 From: bsjoelund Date: 3/29/2016
      Subject: Re: AC drive control issues
      Attachments :
      Hi Tom,

      Got so confused so I did another setup with Mach/Printerport to verify S/D input on servodriver and it all works OK.

      Now I get 'action' with my Kflop setup as well, obviously I must have made some wireing error as it now works.

      What is next step to get CL to work?
      Encoders are 2500ppr - belt reduction is 2:1 on X/Y and 4:1 on Z and ballscrews are 5mm pitch.


      Sorry for all confusions

      Cheers
      Bengt

      		   @@attachment@@
      Group: DynoMotion Message: 13013 From: Tom Kerekes Date: 3/29/2016
      Subject: Re: AC drive control issues [1 Attachment]
      Hi Bengt,

      You will need to compute your system resolution in terms of steps/mm and encoder counts/mm.

      Set the InputGain0 setting to the ratio to match them.

      Verify on the Step Response Screen that they match.

      Regards
      TK

      On 3/29/2016 4:47 AM, cnc@... [DynoMotion] wrote:
       

      Hi Tom,


      Got so confused so I did another setup with Mach/Printerport to verify S/D input on servodriver and it all works OK.

      Now I get 'action' with my Kflop setup as well, obviously I must have made some wireing error as it now works.

      What is next step to get CL to work?
      Encoders are 2500ppr - belt reduction is 2:1 on X/Y and 4:1 on Z and ballscrews are 5mm pitch.


      Sorry for all confusions

      Cheers
      Bengt
      Group: DynoMotion Message: 13014 From: bsjoelund Date: 3/30/2016
      Subject: Re: AC drive control issues [1 Attachment]
      Attachments :
      Hi Tom,

      1 turn on motor shaft = gain 2.5 (0.5x5mm=2.5) for X/Y and 1.25 for Z

      In KMotion one commanded step10 = 1 turn on motor shaft with settings shown and should be 4 turns, right?

      Where do I input motor steps? Assume steps=encoder steps that is 2500ppr. Motor max rpm 2500.


      Cheers
      Bengt



      		   @@attachment@@
      Group: DynoMotion Message: 13016 From: bsjoelund Date: 3/30/2016
      Subject: Re: AC drive control issues [1 Attachment]
      Attachments :
      Noticed that position is slowly creeping.
      		   @@attachment@@
      Group: DynoMotion Message: 13017 From: bsjoelund Date: 3/30/2016
      Subject: Re: AC drive control issues [1 Attachment]
      The position is creeping as seen in enclosed picture.

      Found this in manual as seen in enclosed picture
      Pr1.02 Electronic gear numerator1 1 1~32767 /
      Pr1.04 Electronic gear denominator 1 1~32767 /

      I assume above will help to fix this, but how? 
      Commanded 1000 will result in position 2500 in earlier screendump.

      Numerator to 2 and Denumerator to 5 = Commanded 1000 = 1000 as position, see enclosed picture.

      But KMotion now moves about 1/3 rev for step10


      I can not wrap my head around this so your help is needed.

      Cheers
      Bengt



      		   @@attachment@@
      Group: DynoMotion Message: 13019 From: bsjoelund Date: 3/30/2016
      Subject: Re: AC drive control issues [1 Attachment]
      Attachments :
      Hi Tom,

      This is what I have now and it looks like it is moving axis correctly. KMotion with 40000 counts seems to be close so I now get 2 revolutions on motor shaft.

      In KMotion it appears I can always get back to 0 but commanded X10 varies if via G-code or step10 button:
      Step10 button does not reach full 4 revs, position is a bit shy of 4 full revs.
      G1X10F1500 gets closer but not full 4 revs.

      So what tweaking is need to get better performance.

      All this is done on lab desk with free motor no loads at all.

      Cheers
      Bengt
      		   @@attachment@@
      Group: DynoMotion Message: 13025 From: Tom Kerekes Date: 3/30/2016
      Subject: Re: AC drive control issues [1 Attachment]
      Hi Bengt,

      Please do not run Mach3 or attempt closed loop until your system is working correctly using KMotion.exe and the Step Response Screen.

      Running Open loop the Blue and Red plots should closely match.  Yours are completely different.  The Command (Blue) moves 4000 and the Encoder Position (Red) moves ~9000.  Changing your OutputGain0 from 2.5 to 1 will likely fix this.

      Post a plot of the result.

      Regards
      TK

      On 3/30/2016 8:39 AM, cnc@... [DynoMotion] wrote:
       

      Hi Tom,


      This is what I have now and it looks like it is moving axis correctly. KMotion with 40000 counts seems to be close so I now get 2 revolutions on motor shaft.

      In KMotion it appears I can always get back to 0 but commanded X10 varies if via G-code or step10 button:
      Step10 button does not reach full 4 revs, position is a bit shy of 4 full revs.
      G1X10F1500 gets closer but not full 4 revs.

      So what tweaking is need to get better performance.

      All this is done on lab desk with free motor no loads at all.

      Cheers
      Bengt
      Group: DynoMotion Message: 13029 From: bsjoelund Date: 3/30/2016
      Subject: Re: AC drive control issues [1 Attachment]
      Hi Tom,

      Sorry for my bad English, Mach3 and Printerport was used ONLY to test Step/Dir on driver nothing else!


      Reducing gain to 1 = done. KMotion 100000 counts is close but a little bit short.
      You asked me to calculate Gain and result is 2.5, so how does this all add up?
      2:1 belt reduction 5 mm pitch on ball screw

      Encoder is 10000 pulses/rev and obviously a bit short, see enclosed picture.
      How can this be tweaked?

      Cheers
      Bengt
      		   @@attachment@@
      Group: DynoMotion Message: 13030 From: bsjoelund Date: 3/31/2016
      Subject: Re: AC drive control issues [1 Attachment]
      In KMotion 99400 counts seems to be pretty close.

      How do I set this in Mach3 when that time comes?

      Cheers
      Bengt
      Group: DynoMotion Message: 13031 From: bennyattwell Date: 3/31/2016
      Subject: Re: AC drive control issues [1 Attachment]
      bengt
      i use mitsubishi servos for most of my projects- they have 32 bit encoders as well.
      i work in metric
      i always set the electronic gearing to a figure so all drives require the same steps per revolution
      i usually set 250 steps per mm (using routers so plenty of resolution there)
      that way anything i command them with i know exactly what steps per mm to send to the drive

      on mitsubishi it must be lowered to lowest common denominator for the fraction
      usually ends up as something like 2000/25 for a direct drive ballscrew etc. 

      if using the encoder out from the drive to check loop closed etc i set 4000 counts 

      this may or may not help your cause- but it saves a lot of confusion if you know exactly what to send/ receive .
      Group: DynoMotion Message: 13035 From: bsjoelund Date: 3/31/2016
      Subject: Re: AC drive control issues [1 Attachment]
      Hi Benny,

      Thanks for chiming in, I think I have a grip of this now and have run a test on X-axis today.

      https://youtu.be/WX2V0Q5Aeu4

      Max 4500mm/min and position is close but will be tweaked whaen all axis are running.
      Will tear down all old cables and do a major job with new cables. Lot of work.

      Cheers
      Bengt